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Poll

Should I deal with forum stability issues by... ("Recent Hosting Problems" for details)

Leave everything the way it is
3 (2.8%)
Optional Donations
27 (25.5%)
Advertisement
4 (3.8%)
Optional Donations and Advertisement
25 (23.6%)
Mandatory Fee
2 (1.9%)
Kokoro Cafe Merchandise
8 (7.5%)
Optional Donations, Advertisement and Merchandise
37 (34.9%)

Total Members Voted: 105

Voting closed: November 16, 2013, 11:21:16 PM

Author Topic:  Recent Hosting Problems - Need Input So Please Read  (Read 22644 times)

kokoro-cafe

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on: November 16, 2013, 11:21:16 PM

UPDATE: It seems most people who voted agreed that donation, merchandise and ads would be a good way to go so I set up a donation page via Paypal and a merchandise store via CafePress.  Support Kokoro Cafe Hosting: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=769&p=20611#p20611


EDIT: So I was an idiot and edited the poll and completely forgot that it resets the poll. Whoever voted please vote again.  I remember the tally when I last looked but... that was a few hours ago and I'm not sure if anyone else voted in that time.  Thank you to everyone for sounding out their opinion! I really appreciate the support!!!  :heart:


So here's some bad news guys. I'm sure all of you have experienced some kind of downtime or lag on this site.  I recently found out my host implemented a CPU limit in which if this site surpasses that limit every hour the entire site goes down for that hour it surpassed.  I try to keep things at a minimum but this forum has already shutdown on me twice today for surpassing the limit.  I'm currently shopping for a new host but it's not easy finding a free host that has unlimited bandwidth, at least 10 GB of storage, no ads, supports PHP, MySQL etc etc.  Add in that host has to be reliable and the hosting won't just disappear within the year and that leaves pretty much with the host I'm using now as the only viable option (Just spent 2 hours searching).  The only real option I can think of is to upgrade to paid which I am now forced to consider since even trying to fix minor issues on this site has shutdown this site twice today (not to mention it's difficult to update walkthroughs with the lag and loading problems). Hosting isn't incredibly expensive but it does add up and I don't mind paying a little out of pocket but there's no way I can support this site in a long run like this so this forum will need some kind of support if we want to keep it stable. Honestly though, considering how many members there are on this forum and if everyone only donated $0.01 USD to keeping this site running we would have enough to keep this site up stable for at least 2 years.

Instead of me making a decision I figured I would lay it out for you guys what my options are now.  Other than the first option everything else will undoubtedly mean more work for me but as long as you guys are happy I am too so here are the options:


A) Leave everything the way it is
Positive: Free
Negative: Lag, Problems with page loads, Unexpected Downtime, Anything E-mail related is unreliable (i.e. password retrieval)

This will mean the entire site will be pretty much unreliable. I've already done as much as I can from my end to ease the problems but there's really not much I can do from here on out.


B) Setup a donation option
Positive: Optional monetary support, A more stable website
Negative: Will require monetary support and probably will not always reach its goal which means there will possibly be some downtime

I personally like this option even though it's not a very reliable one. Like I said earlier if every member chipped in $0.01 USD we could keep this place up for 2 years with stability. Of course, I don't expect everyone to have the funds to support this site and I prefer to keep it free which is why it's a donation and not mandatory fee.
 

C) Advertisement option
Positive: Free, Monetary support for possibly a more stable website
Negative: Will require user participation, Crowds up the forum, Probably not a very reliable way to keep forum running stable in a long run

I like to keep the forum as clean as possible and not overrun the place with too many ads especially ads that have nothing to do with games in general.  Having said this though, it is a possible way to increase funds for upgrading the hosting service and a free way at that (mostly).  Every time someone clicks on an ad or someone buys an item after clicking through an ad on this forum will mean a little revenue for the site to get upgraded.  Again it's not a reliable option but an option nonetheless.


D) Options B and C
Positive: Monetary support for possibly a more stable website, More revenue streams will mean more attainable goals
Negative: Will require user participation, Crowds up the forum, possibility will not always reach its goal (lower odds though)

Doing both B and C will increase the likelihood that this site will get enough money to pay off the upgrade fee every month but it's not guaranteed.


E) Mandatory Fee Option
Positive: Ensured stable site (Host promises 99.9% up time), More updates and support for forum, Possibly some extra incentives for users (i.e. Prizes), Clean website
Negative: Not free

This isn't the first option I would pick even though it's probably the most stable. I personally want to keep this forum free since I understand not everyone has money or the funds to support this site.  Otome games by themselves are already an expensive addiction so I prefer not to use this option but again it's probably the most stable option so that's why it's here.


EDIT (MORE OPTIONS-You can re-vote if you like):

F) Kokoro Cafe Merchandise Option
Positive:
Optional monetary support, A gift for your support for x number of dollars contributed, A more stable website
Negative: Will require monetary support and probably will not always reach its goal which means there will possibly be some downtime, Members are from all over the world (shipping may not be very reliable), Merchandise require funds and if not enough sells could risk lowering funds even more

Julzyfox suggested this and I've considered it myself before.  I like the idea but the implementation may be tough because it will mean I have to have stock and if it doesn't sell very well I may be down funds instead of up.  Also, shipping may not be very reliable or cheap everywhere especially international shipping.  That said though, I would love cute Kokoro Cafe merchandise myself if I can find a way to make it work-able. :love3: This option is available so I can gauge the amount of interest.


F) B, C and D Option

Positive: Optional monetary support, A gift for your support for x number of dollars contributed, A more stable website, More revenue streams will mean more attainable goals
Negative: Will require user participation, Crowds up the forum, possibility will not always reach its goal (lower odds though), Members are from all over the world (shipping may not be very reliable), Merchandise require funds and if not enough sells could risk lowering funds even more

This is a combo of donations, advertisements and merchandise.  If you don't mind the donations and ads but also interested in the merchandise too.


I didn't add the find a new host option in because I'm thinking what if I can't find another host like what it's looking like now. You can vote in the poll for which option you prefer. Also please leave any other suggestions if you have them.

Linkback: https://kokoro-cafe.net/index.php?topic=687.0
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »


Julzyfox

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Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 06:51:00 AM
I just had a fleeting thought:

You could always sell "Kokoro Cafe" things, that people would purchase as support for the website and give money to help put into a bank account (or piggy bank, or sock, etc) for this particular website and anything you have to use the money for to pay and keep it running :3 Plus, then they can show their pride with whatever they buy, like a shirt or a hat (or buttons/patches!) and then later on down the road, once your website becomes more famous and popular, maybe one day, you can sell actual otome things such as games, or fun stuff like dolls xD

I dunno, it was just an idea.  I'm sorry if I make no sense, I'm so tired ;w; I'll try and explain it better if I need to xD
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Aiwethryne

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Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 08:40:53 AM
Riding on the air of fundraising, there are always the use of sites like Kickstarter. It can be managed by anyone who can be trusted to transfer the resulting money. Like what you said, there would have to be a reasonable quota for an allotted time limit, since success is required to receive any funds. It's hilarious when people shoot too high and the project gets labeled as "Unsuccessful" forever (my group admittedly experienced this a few years ago, but the second time we tried was fine)~ A new one can happen once in a while as needed, though.

However, Kickstarter does go by the rewards system. I doubt that the KC otome game will be completed any time soon, but something related to that, even as minor as news updates, could help urge people to support. I can personally draw KC-ish things, too... I mean, as much as it does not seem like I ever upload finished pieces, I do complete them. However, I would not count myself as especially reliable whenever I become busier and start hiding, as will definitely happen. But what "face" would KC even have? I see the banner couple and fanart is apparent in a site like this, but... there are many fuzzy grounds.

There is also the case of needing to frequently advertise the fundraisers. It is a bit sad, although understandable, when forums have stickied such news pieces, but people have that tendency of overlooking things, given how much they are willing to try to look around on their own. It is stressful to try to hint this stuff at people without being too blatant with blinking rainbow headlights, but otome game greet spams are surprisingly effective in spreading word of news. In any case, however much those people would ever try to look into it would be shaky, since, really, this is *just* an non-compulsory walkthrough site.

Aside from all this, that was a very informative read, KC~ It goes to show how little I know about the technicalities of the interwebs. I do not mind ads, though. If only we could just get ads about otome games and the like.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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Artemis003

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Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 11:06:34 AM
In my personal experience I find that ads on website do not seem like the most reliable source to access something through. I'm always a lil worried bout a virus or spyware if I click the wrong thing so if I see an ad that I am interested in on a website I usually Google search it for a different way to find it so I'm not clicking the add link. For this reason I agree with the optional donations. Though there may be worry bout not meeting the quota,  with the amount of people who pay for the apps and/or items in the games who then use the walkthroughs on this site I don't think that it'll be an issue. Plus with a regular donation support forum telling us members how much is needed and by when or where we are to meeting the goal could help push for donations.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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AngoSaki

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Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 09:51:04 PM
As I said on facebook, I'm in favor of giving you an option for those who want to, contribute their bit with some money, however little it may be, what counts is the intentional detail. I would of those people, the forum I like, useful, and is a reference to the guides or aids in the otome.
The theme of the ads .. I would not bother, all sites have some publicity, and is a small income for the forum.
I want the forum still active and alive, as usual.
Come on, cheer up! ^^

****************

Como ya te dije por facebook, estoy a favor de que hagas una opción de donaciones, para que quienes quieran, aporten su granito de arena con algún dinero, por poco que sea, lo que cuenta es el detalle intencional. Yo sería de esas personas, el foro me gusta, es útil, y es una referencia para las guías o ayudas en los otome.
El tema de las publicidades.. no me molestaría, todos los site tienen alguna publicidad, y es un pequeño ingreso para el foro.
Yo quiero que el foro siga activo y vivo, como hasta ahora.
Ánimo!
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
My sweet bodyguard]Kaiji[/i] route
Be my princess]Edward[/i]
Celebrity darling ]Haru[/color] route!
Shall we date NINJA (Gree)]Sasuke[/color] (L) //Mi NinjaLove\'s ID: 711959152//
Shall we date] Goyo ]GbmNH90gXy[/b]
ID in these]Ango[/b] or AngoSaki

Nice to meetcha!~


Mizuki

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Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 10:18:49 PM
Regarding advertising, I've heard about something called Project Wonderful. https://www.projectwonderful.com/sellingads.php Instead of earning money from clicks, you're earning money from the time the ad is up on the site. I think you can also choose categories for what sort of ads you would like to appear.

An issue may arise if people are using ad-blockers, though. Also, a 25% commission on each sale is charged, and there is a withdrawal fee of $1. https://www.projectwonderful.com/wecanhelp.php?id=52
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kokoro-cafe

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Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 10:50:26 PM
Quote from: "Julzyfox"
I just had a fleeting thought:

You could always sell "Kokoro Cafe" things, that people would purchase as support for the website and give money to help put into a bank account (or piggy bank, or sock, etc) for this particular website and anything you have to use the money for to pay and keep it running :3 Plus, then they can show their pride with whatever they buy, like a shirt or a hat (or buttons/patches!) and then later on down the road, once your website becomes more famous and popular, maybe one day, you can sell actual otome things such as games, or fun stuff like dolls xD

I dunno, it was just an idea.  I'm sorry if I make no sense, I'm so tired ;w; I'll try and explain it better if I need to xD

You know I thought of that before too and I would absolutely love to do something like that since I absolutely hate asking for people for money but I don't have much of a choice regarding this matter.  My concern is that doing something like that would require some preliminary funds which I could set aside but I'm just wondering how many people would actually be interested in purchasing items though.  If I get merchandise it would only be cheap if I bulk order it but if I have a lot of it not sold I may be down funds instead of up.  Not to mention many members are from all over the world and shipping isn't always very reliable or cheap.  I will add that to the list to gauge interest and do some research and see if it is feasible though.

Quote from: "Aiwethryne"
Riding on the air of fundraising, there are always the use of sites like Kickstarter. It can be managed by anyone who can be trusted to transfer the resulting money. Like what you said, there would have to be a reasonable quota for an allotted time limit, since success is required to receive any funds. It's hilarious when people shoot too high and the project gets labeled as "Unsuccessful" forever (my group admittedly experienced this a few years ago, but the second time we tried was fine)~ A new one can happen once in a while as needed, though.

However, Kickstarter does go by the rewards system. I doubt that the KC otome game will be completed any time soon, but something related to that, even as minor as news updates, could help urge people to support. I can personally draw KC-ish things, too... I mean, as much as it does not seem like I ever upload finished pieces, I do complete them. However, I would not count myself as especially reliable whenever I become busier and start hiding, as will definitely happen. But what "face" would KC even have? I see the banner couple and fanart is apparent in a site like this, but... there are many fuzzy grounds.

There is also the case of needing to frequently advertise the fundraisers. It is a bit sad, although understandable, when forums have stickied such news pieces, but people have that tendency of overlooking things, given how much they are willing to try to look around on their own. It is stressful to try to hint this stuff at people without being too blatant with blinking rainbow headlights, but otome game greet spams are surprisingly effective in spreading word of news. In any case, however much those people would ever try to look into it would be shaky, since, really, this is *just* an non-compulsory walkthrough site.

Aside from all this, that was a very informative read, KC~ It goes to show how little I know about the technicalities of the interwebs. I do not mind ads, though. If only we could just get ads about otome games and the like.

My friend actually mentioned Kickstarter not long ago to raise funds for the cost of making an otome game like software fees and developer fees paid to Apple and what not but we figured we would wait until we were pretty much ready to build the game before we did that.  I always thought Kickstarter was for bigger projects like that though?  I guess I could make one but like you said it goes by a reward system and I'm not sure what would be a good reward? As I said above, users are all over the world and shipping isn't always reliable. I was wondering what you meant by news updates as reward though?

And thanks for the offer to help if art is needed! I really appreciate it!  I'm not sure what could represent this forum though.  The cafe image was an idea I pitched to my friend and she illustrated it for me since my drawings aren't reliable at all.  :laugh: I guess I need to brainstorm more?

As for ads, I will try to keep it towards gaming such as otome games, visual novels and casual games but that may not happen since it really depends on what kind of tools merchants have for their advertisers to use.  I will try to keep things in context of what the members may be interested in as much as possible though.

Quote from: "Artemis003"
In my personal experience I find that ads on website do not seem like the most reliable source to access something through. I'm always a lil worried bout a virus or spyware if I click the wrong thing so if I see an ad that I am interested in on a website I usually Google search it for a different way to find it so I'm not clicking the add link. For this reason I agree with the optional donations. Though there may be worry bout not meeting the quota,  with the amount of people who pay for the apps and/or items in the games who then use the walkthroughs on this site I don't think that it'll be an issue. Plus with a regular donation support forum telling us members how much is needed and by when or where we are to meeting the goal could help push for donations.

I completely agree, ads aren't very reliable at all but I figure if I do post ads it would be from some kind of reliable source such as PlayAsia, YesAsia, Amazon, iTunes etc etc.  Which would directly link to them.  It wouldn't gain as much revenue but I despise shady advertisers and last thing I want is for people to get viruses and spyware.  I will try to keep everything within context of gaming and things that members may like too.  That may lower the revenue too but I dislike how random ads look on an otherwise nice site.

-- Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:23 pm --

Quote from: "AngoSaki"
As I said on facebook, I'm in favor of giving you an option for those who want to, contribute their bit with some money, however little it may be, what counts is the intentional detail. I would of those people, the forum I like, useful, and is a reference to the guides or aids in the otome.
The theme of the ads .. I would not bother, all sites have some publicity, and is a small income for the forum.
I want the forum still active and alive, as usual.
Come on, cheer up! ^^

****************

Como ya te dije por facebook, estoy a favor de que hagas una opción de donaciones, para que quienes quieran, aporten su granito de arena con algún dinero, por poco que sea, lo que cuenta es el detalle intencional. Yo sería de esas personas, el foro me gusta, es útil, y es una referencia para las guías o ayudas en los otome.
El tema de las publicidades.. no me molestaría, todos los site tienen alguna publicidad, y es un pequeño ingreso para el foro.
Yo quiero que el foro siga activo y vivo, como hasta ahora.
Ánimo!

Thanks for the support!!!  :heart:

Quote from: "Mizuki"
Regarding advertising, I've heard about something called Project Wonderful. https://www.projectwonderful.com/sellingads.php Instead of earning money from clicks, you're earning money from the time the ad is up on the site. I think you can also choose categories for what sort of ads you would like to appear.

An issue may arise if people are using ad-blockers, though. Also, a 25% commission on each sale is charged, and there is a withdrawal fee of $1. https://www.projectwonderful.com/wecanhelp.php?id=52

Thanks Mizuki! That's the first time I've ever heard about something like that. I will definitely take a look!
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »


Aiwethryne

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Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 12:00:51 AM
I have seen Kickstarter used for the most arbitrary, mundane, non-large "projects," so I figure that KC has a chance to shine in a more relevant way.

Rewards on Kickstarter do not need to be material objects. My group would set the smallest amount and up to at least add a "Thanks" in our printed magazine. I have no idea what type of things would be especially worthy of needing some official update notice, aside from sneak peaks of whatever goes on for the KC otome game...
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LadyAyaRose

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Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 12:28:10 AM
Out of curiosity how much does it actually cost to keep a site like this active if it actually comes to that ?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

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ChaeEun

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Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 01:06:09 AM
I really I don't know what to vote. I'm sure that I'll donate if the forum ask me - Ok, I haven't a lot money but I'll do it -.

We can think in other options like lotto. We can offer handmade things like dolls, lapel pin, t-shirt with images, CG in photo paper or search merchandising cheaper... and sell a participation for 1 dollar/euro... Perhaps is a little ridiculous or crazy but could be a option for next months or years.

Or perhaps.... crowdfunding??? :confused:

Sorry.... I think I'm a bit sleeping...
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rubenz

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Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 01:26:31 AM
I love this forum it's very useful for us so I don't mind donating though I can only donate a little of money each month. Btw may I know how much the server cost?

 :blush3:
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joanie

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Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 08:31:48 AM
I don't mind ads (except when it suddenly talks or plays a music). I'm also willing to donate a bit for paid hosting as well. For the merchandise, it's a bit tough because of the shipping fees, the shipping fees might actually cost more than the item itself if the item is shipped to different countries, hmm..  :book:

Is the paid hosting for this forum is approximately 50 dollars for a year's subscription? It does get cheaper if the subscription is annual-based  :book:

Or there would be raffle for a certain item or game if you donate 2 dollars or more. Like you'd win Sakevisual's Backstage Pass (this game isn't released yet  :cry:) or an item from YesAsia or something, hmm..

I'm not really good with brainstorming ideas but I will support Kokorocafe as much as I can.  :heart:
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kokoro-cafe

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Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: "Aiwethryne"
I have seen Kickstarter used for the most arbitrary, mundane, non-large "projects," so I figure that KC has a chance to shine in a more relevant way.

Rewards on Kickstarter do not need to be material objects. My group would set the smallest amount and up to at least add a "Thanks" in our printed magazine. I have no idea what type of things would be especially worthy of needing some official update notice, aside from sneak peaks of whatever goes on for the KC otome game...

Yea... not much is going on with that right now with the game till I finish my exam...  :blush: I think first I need to map out which hosting plan I would like and decide if Kickstarter will be needed.


Quote from: "LadyAyaRose"
Out of curiosity how much does it actually cost to keep a site like this active if it actually comes to that ?

The cost varies from host to host but the host I'm using now varies from $4/month to $7 or $8/month (can't remember off the top of my head) USD.  Of course the more years I sign up for the lower the cost but I'm not sure if it's an upfront payment, need to do more research.  I'm thinking what I should do is sign up for the max number of years to keep costs low but then I will need to raise enough money to pay for all of it at once if that's what the host requires for a cheaper rate.


Quote from: "ChaeEun"
I really I don't know what to vote. I'm sure that I'll donate if the forum ask me - Ok, I haven't a lot money but I'll do it -.

We can think in other options like lotto. We can offer handmade things like dolls, lapel pin, t-shirt with images, CG in photo paper or search merchandising cheaper... and sell a participation for 1 dollar/euro... Perhaps is a little ridiculous or crazy but could be a option for next months or years.

Or perhaps.... crowdfunding??? :confused:

Sorry.... I think I'm a bit sleeping...

Yea, Julzyfox mentioned merchandising earlier too.  Not sure if enough people are interested in it so we will see how people respond in the polls first. Merchandise isn't a huge problem but the international shipping worries me.


Quote from: "rubenz"
I love this forum it's very useful for us so I don't mind donating though I can only donate a little of money each month. Btw may I know how much the server cost?

 :blush3:

Thank you!! I appreciate the willingness to help.  :heart:

The cost varies from host to host but the host I'm using now varies from $4/month to $7 or $8/month (can't remember off the top of my head) USD.  Of course the more years I sign up for the lower the cost but I'm not sure if it's an upfront payment, need to do more research.  I'm thinking what I should do is sign up for the max number of years to keep costs low but then I will need to raise enough money to pay for all of it at once if that's what the host requires for a cheaper rate.


Quote from: "joanie"
I don't mind ads (except when it suddenly talks or plays a music). I'm also willing to donate a bit for paid hosting as well. For the merchandise, it's a bit tough because of the shipping fees, the shipping fees might actually cost more than the item itself if the item is shipped to different countries, hmm..  :book:

Is the paid hosting for this forum is approximately 50 dollars for a year's subscription? It does get cheaper if the subscription is annual-based  :book:

Or there would be raffle for a certain item or game if you donate 2 dollars or more. Like you'd win Sakevisual's Backstage Pass (this game isn't released yet  :cry:) or an item from YesAsia or something, hmm..

I'm not really good with brainstorming ideas but I will support Kokorocafe as much as I can.  :heart:

Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact costs but it ranges from $4/month to $7 or $8/month USD.  The cheaper rate is for the longest subscription which I think is... 3 or 4 years if I remember correctly.  And $7 or $8/month is the cost month to month.  I can't remember the rate at all for a years subscription~~ sorry~~ I'll have to look again later.

You are right about shipping fees and such, it's expensive.  Sent my phone to England to be fixed once and it cost me $50 just to ship there.  I would love to make merchandise for this forum though~ it seems so fun.  Like coffee mugs and tea cups~~ I want a Kokoro Cafe cup haha~

Anyway, the raffle actually sounds brilliant.  I can have a couple of electronic gift-able prizes as options, it would definitely solve the shipping problem too.  Well maybe the merchandise could be a raffle too? I can consider it at least.  :giggle:

Thank you for the support!  :heart:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »


joanie

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Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 11:23:20 AM
@kokoro-cafe: I noticed that a lot of people liked the merchandise idea :giggle: maybe designs can be made, then orders can be taken in before the actual production, so that you won't have lots of stocks lying around, and as you mentioned, it would be cheaper to send them in bulk and maybe have a key person assigned per country for the order  :bulb: but I do know that if you do have more orders, then the item gets cheaper, hmm...

Thanks for all your hardwork too! I really met a lot of nice people in this forum and I learned a lot of otome games as well  :heart:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »


LadyAyaRose

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Reply #14 on: November 18, 2013, 02:14:37 PM
Advertisements that like to lag when they have either music or voice in it...Thats my pet peeve. I mean its annoying enough, when they actually speak to you. Another than that i'm fine with adverts, well if they are related to otomes then thats even better :P

I want a mug as well lol...

@Joanie Backstage Pass :O Oooo I've been waiting for that to come out for yoinks....I want to play it now *sniff*
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »



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