Author Topic: Forbidden Love (Read 60750 times)

Ritsuka Yuki Tsubasa · **Reply #60 on:** September 03, 2013, 11:59:21 AM

Hi sorry if this is in the wrong place but i was wondering does anybody know how many stories Johannes have? :) (in the japanese version that is.)

Aiwethryne · **Reply #61 on:** September 05, 2013, 06:36:52 AM

Ryan McHenry's route has been added to the game today! ...Yesterday... His story is currently my favorite, although I find it generic, as always~

To think the entire last page is covered with spoiler tags, and here I am finally adding those Robert Story 1 spoilers~ In the time it took me to reach a computer to do this, people probably could have finished the whole Robert story on their own... Unlike Johannes' story, Robert's had comparatively more to it. Like, urg. This is less of brief spoilers and more of a giant, effing summary.

Main story spoilers~

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In this route, the MC had unrequited love towards Mike, and Robert is not married. Linda also seems to earnestly care for Dave.

Dave is severely ill and cannot perform his tasks in the corporation. He plans for Mike to return home to take over the group. Due to a delay in Mike's arrival, Dave tells the MC that he wants her to take a temporary position as a Jones' Corporation executive to support Mike. Linda is instantly against this, reminding him how she has no training in law or economics. Dave decides that Robert will begin teaching the MC, but Linda is wary of Robert's true intentions and indicates that he might try to take advantage of the MC's innocence.

The MC continues to work part-time at the florist with her boss, Mr. McHenry, but she informs him that she would need to quit soon. She happens to see Robert off-duty and he takes her to a bar, where Johannes appears. They notice that Sam and a secretary of the president of HMT are also with each other at the bar, and Johannes is suspicious by the coincidence that all of them happen to be there that night. As Sam and the secretary leave, Robert takes the MC with him to prevent her from being left with Johannes. The MC convinces Robert to allow her to follow Sam with him, if it can help Jones' Corp, Mike, and Dave.

Robert pretends to be a couple with the MC to get close enough to continue spying on Sam. After reporting the incident to Dave, Dave is worried about what the encounter means for a nearing business contract. Sam is both a Jones' Corporation executive and president cover at SNB, and SNB might merge with a part of NTB Corp, which would boost SNB to the top industry. HMT is extremely close in industrial standing to SNB, so HMT would attempt to stop the merger or try to merge with SNB themselves. This confidential information is thought to have been leaked, with Sam appearing to be the most likely operative. They believe that Sam is hastening his plans because Mike will be the CEO of SNB. Robert emphasizes the dangers the MC might experience, if she further involves herself.

Mike calls the MC, infuriated by the knowledge that the MC will be a stand-in executive, and he believes that she is trying to manipulate Dave. The MC tells Mike to trust her and Robert, since he will soon arrive to succeed the company. Johannes visits the MC at work and later takes her to a bar, where Johannes turns their attention to Robert, flirting with the same secretary Sam was with. The woman gives Robert an envelope. Johannes tries to comfort the MC's anxieties over seeing this and attempts to kiss her, but he is stopped by Robert. Robert warns Johannes not to touch the Jones' family heiress and tries to leave with the MC, but Johannes accuses Robert of being with the secretary from before. However, no evidence is found on Robert, and the secretary was gone. The MC is conflicted by Robert's lies and insults towards Johannes, but Robert asks that the MC trust him, even though he cannot tell her everything.

Dave is hospitalized, but he is recommended complete bed rest at home for the time being. Sam tries to intimidate the MC by talking about her inexperience, as she is to replace Sam as vice-president, and he starts inappropriately touching her body. She tries to call for Robert, but Sam kisses her and soon leaves. When Robert found her, he repeated how she should stop trying to do this line of work and says that they must delay the announcement that she is to become vice-president in the corporation.

Tom meets with the MC to talk about HMT in secret. The HMT secretary had been revealing all of the information from Sam to HMT executives. The MC wonders about the depth of relationship between Robert and that secretary. Tom says that the MC is a target, as Dave is sick and Mike is away, and there are disloyal insiders in Jones' branches. Thinking that Tom is threatening her, Tom assures the MC that he is on the MC's side and worries about her specifically.

Dave wakes up and tells the MC to give up becoming an executive, but Robert prevents her from hearing the explanation. The MC sneaks out of the hospital and finds herself at the flower shop, where she sees McHenry. Robert catches up with her and beckons her to return to the hospital, to which the MC refuses to follow. McHenry threatens to call the police, if Robert continues to bother his employee, forcing Robert to leave. To help keep her mind preoccupied, McHenry asks the MC to take an extra shift at work that day and later takes her out to have dinner. However, McHenry gets a call from his boss and leaves. The MC is kidnapped by a couple of men and one tries to rape her, while the other films it, saying it will be used as leverage against Mike and Robert. Robert saves her and takes her back to the Jones' estate.

Robert offers to stay with the MC overnight, promising to tell her everything the next day, and they sleep on the same bed. Once they wake up in the morning, Mike finds them in bed together and misinterprets the scene, assuming that Robert has betrayed him and his father and seduced the MC. Mike fires Robert but decides not to kick the MC out of the estate, after she tells him of Sam's inappropriate actions towards her. Mike has guards watch over the MC while she continues to go to work, and he is aware that she is continually trying to find Robert. Although he had been checked out of the hospital, Dave remains too ill and must continue to rest in bed. Linda willingly takes care of Dave, seemingly not more upset over how she can no longer partake in management in the corporation. In spite of his earlier words, Dave wants the MC to support Mike.

At work, McHenry brings the MC to have lunch with him and inquires about Robert, assuming him to be the MC's boyfriend. Robert appears, and McHenry allows the MC the rest of the day off work to spend time with Robert. He informs her that the merger is not fairing well, and Mike has been burdening himself with the weight of the corporation without extra help. Robert kisses the MC's forehead and says that he cannot continue being her butler, declining the MC's offer to go ask for Mike's pardon. They walk around while holding hands, both of them surmising that they must look like a couple. Robert obscurely admits how he is the first butler in his family, not delving into anything more before departing.

Johannes calls, mentioning a magazine featuring Robert and the MC. When the MC tries to leave the estate to purchase the magazine, Mike stops her and reveals that he has a copy of the magazine. The article reported the previous day's meeting between the MC, recognized as heiress to the Jones' Group, and Robert, of the Robert Phillip Group. Mike reveals that Robert is the successor to the large Robert Phillip Group, which is connected to Sam. Robert had become butler to the Jones family because Dave and Robert's father are friends. The MC resolves to keep trying to support Mike, and, due to the media hype, she remains at the estate and takes a break from working at the flower shop.

The MC finds Sam groping Linda's while trying to get her to switch allegiances, but Linda is offended and leaves. Sam notices the MC and begins to pursue her, chasing her back to her room. She calls for Robert to save her and cowers in her room, while Sam continually attempts to coax her into letting him in. Mike calls her phone, but she does not reveal her situation to him and hangs up. Sam had a key, saying that her room was once his, and unlocked her door, locking it after he entered. When Sam reaches to grab the MC, Robert saves her and jumps out the balcony with her in his embrace. Robert states that Sam finally acted this forward because Robert was no longer around to watch over the estate.

Robert decides to reveal everything and takes her to his house. Anne, Robert's mother, meets the two, having heard that Robert had abducted the MC. She worries about the implications this could cause to their own company, but Robert does not care and leaves the house with the MC. They go to a hotel and rest on the same bed, where Robert begins telling the truth. He had come into the service of the Jones family because his parents were troubled by his bad behavior. He first wanted to destroy the Jones' Corporation, but he then wanted to use it to crush the Robert Phillip Corporation. Although he was prepared to become the official secretary of Dave, it was decided that Robert remain a butler to keep out of the sight of enemies. Five years ago, Robert had recommended that Mike go to New York, intending to manipulate the MC after he left. However, Robert found that he wanted to protect her, instead. He used the HMT secretary to gather intelligence on Sam's actions, and Robert wanted the merger between HTM and NTB. He concludes that he is working for Jones, even if he cannot confess everything, yet.

Mike calls, and the MC vaguely informs him of her whereabouts and what Sam had done. Still distrustful of Robert, Mike says that he wants to protect her himself, but the MC recalls how hurt she was when he mistook her behavior in the past, believing it to be too late. Robert takes the MC to Mike and gives him a USB drive explaining why he does not wish for the merger to happen. Before leaving, Robert asks Mike to make the MC his secretary to keep her under close protection from Sam. Mike and the MC review the files, which contain reports that conflict with what Mike is aware of and information about military weapons. Wondering how this could have slipped the notice of him and Dave, the MC mentions how Linda said that Sam is controlling the Jones' executives. Considering this, Mike takes Robert's request and makes the MC his secretary.

On the day celebrating Mike's initiation as CEO, Johannes probes the MC about her feelings towards Robert and her decision to take this position and leave the flower shop. She had told McHenry her identity, but he accepted it. Tom joins their conversation and tells them that he had divorced his wife. The MC leaves the two to argue while she receives a phone call at the reception desk, but it ends before she answers. Worried, she notices that Sam is still in the crowd. The kidnapper from before catches her and tries to rape her again in one of the hotel rooms. Meanwhile, Mike and Robert see each other, Robert saying that he does not want to return to his family and is ready to resume his work with the Jones family. Johannes notices that the MC has gone missing, and he and Robert go in search of her and rescue her. After a brief interrogation, the kidnapper admits that Sam hired him.

Robert and the MC tell Mike about the incident, which builds Mike's frustrations over NTB's second-thoughts about the merge. If the merge happens, NTB and HTM will increase their trade of weapons. The MC suggests that they buy out NTB and replace their CEO, so Mike and Robert think of options. Two weeks later, the companies had successfully been merged, which shocks Sam. Robert enters, revealing his position as the new CEO of NTB. Sam had been envious of everything Dave had and had plotted the events to gain recognition of his superiority. Having spewed out the details in his involvement, Sam provided enough recorded evidence to keep him in prison, and he was arrested soon after.

Robert says that he needs to repay his family for helping the merge take place, and he hopes that the MC will wait for him...

Happy End spoilers

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Normal End spoilers

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The Happy End actually concluded in a foreboding way, since not everyone left this situation nearly completely content. *coughMike* I can only imagine that that is setting up for something otome-dramatic in future Robert stories.

Like I already and repeatedly said, in my opinion, the MC is more hopeless in this route than usual. It especially frustrates me how she is basically

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this entire story, and she even believes that she is too weak to fight off these advances. Sam was so creepy, I both shuddered and thought everything he did was horribly demented in an amusing, psychologically revolting, hilarious, brainf*cking way.

One of the main shortcomings in this game is really the lack of in-depth background descriptions. The many acronyms would have been easier to mentally sort out, if the story writers were not always so vague about each company's business ventures. The loose explanations makes the game writers appear as though they do not even know their own world and were making it up as they went. Then again, this is an issue with the content of numerous phone application otome games.

But I have to say that a couple of my favorite mistranslations were the lines about how Robert's "vocabulary must be poor," when “vocabulary” most likely should have been 'memory,' and that Tom "distinguished his cigarette," instead of 'extinguishing' it. And all the 'grub'ing. Out of all of the main routes I have played, Robert's is seriously the worst in grammar and translation. At one point, Dave even said that the MC will help “Sonobe.” Heh... The Jones' Japanese surname. That sort of highlights how many of these instances were simply placeholders for what they would really translate these as, unless these had been typed back when they were deciding whether or not to add Japanese or English names.

Does anyone know what the Japanese version of Jones' Corporation is called? It would make every bit of sense if the initials lined up as “SNB,” since their Japanese surname is Sonobe, after all... It's one of those incongruities that makes playing this somewhat confusing. And I am seriously not sure which spelling of Robert's last name I should trust, since the game text itself is inconsistent.

Lastly, I slightly edited the main post a while back to include links to the forum walkthrough and CGs threads. Oh, wait. By the random waaaayyyy~ Remember how I uploaded the Special Event Happy Ending scenes? I would still highly welcome it if someone let me have the Normal Ends in image file form. I am still dwelling over the loss of that.

@ Ritsuka Yuki Tsubasa~
This is a proper place to post that~ However, I have no idea~~ But I pestered some people I know who play the Japanese version to check, and Johannes currently has three stories.

@ Nobodyknows~
Yeah, I'll look at aaaallll of those blocks of black after I complete Mike Story 4, but that would take even longer, now that McHenry's route is here. I am amused that there is so much to be ranted about Mike Story 4's content.

Ritsuka Yuki Tsubasa · **Reply #62 on:** September 08, 2013, 02:58:18 PM

Cool thank you for the information. ^_^
I was also wondering can i move the game (all my saved information) over to another phone? and if so how do i do it?

*Edit* Also is it ok if i have spoilers of Mikes 4th story please? :)

Aiwethryne · **Reply #63 on:** September 11, 2013, 09:28:26 AM

Alas, as I have already mentioned, I have not completed Mike's fourth story and likely will not complete it in a while~ But... have you tried reading those evident spoilers that went between Nobodyknows and MomoiroRose? I assume those are heavy with Story 4's information...

And Johannes (Story 2) and Mike (Story 5) have been released~

Nobodyknows · **Reply #64 on:** September 11, 2013, 10:15:34 AM

There aren't that many spoilers, to my mind. We were just talking about some stupidities of the game and unreasonable doings of characters.

saki_yokushi · **Reply #65 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:05:44 AM

Well, to be true - I really don't like Mike's story 4 even though I'm a big fan of his story. I mean those *third party*? are not that threatening at all. The good part of that story is the juicy intimate moments of MC and Mike. But, at least in the story 5, it is quite nice even though there is no hint of intimate moments... I like the story 5 *just ignore the fact that we are forwarding ten years later*.

Nobodyknows · **Reply #66 on:** September 12, 2013, 09:00:24 AM

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*just ignore the fact that we are forwarding ten years later*

Mother of God

Someone.. spoilers.. please!

Hagu_TL · **Reply #67 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:14:22 PM

Quote from: "Aiwethryne"

The loose explanations makes the game writers appear as though they do not even know their own world and were making it up as they went. Then again, this is an issue with the content of numerous phone application otome games...Out of all of the main routes I have played, Robert's is seriously the worst in grammar and translation.

It's a sad thing when a work's divided amongst translators of varying skills and enthusiasm. Even worse is when some or all of the translators refuse to convene to create a dictionary of common terms. Of course, having multiple translators means faster translation and less "burn-out" per person.

It might be nice if we could pin the blame all on the translators, but like you hinted at, there's also varying quality between the original producers. All that creepiness and frustration you mentioned is probably never the fault of the translator. I only wish I knew enough to write a Consumer's Report article.

Nobodyknows · **Reply #68 on:** September 13, 2013, 12:23:20 AM

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It's a sad thing when a work's divided amongst translators of varying skills and enthusiasm. Even worse is when some or all of the translators refuse to convene to create a dictionary of common terms. Of course, having multiple translators means faster translation and less "burn-out" per person.

Agreed. Though, as for the multiple translators.. that's even strange, because if you think about it, there isn't that much text to translate. Seriously, it's a one full day of work for one person.

Hagu_TL · **Reply #69 on:** September 13, 2013, 01:55:29 AM

Now, that's a dangerous misconception! Even Haruhito's relatively short main route, which just came out for 10DWMD, has somewhere around 26,000 words (avg. 1000 words per 26 scenes)! If a double spaced page of an essay has about 400 words, that's like 65 pages! Even if you were some sort of super-translator, able to write in English AND read in Japanese at the same time, imagine how long that would take...

Yes, a lot of estimation was involved in this, but still, it takes a lot less time to eat an apple than it takes to grow it...

Nobodyknows · **Reply #70 on:** September 13, 2013, 03:52:12 PM

Oh, please. I knew you'd get me wrong.
Yes, I'm an interpreter. And you're missing one important point. The number of pages matters, of course. But what you're missing is the difficulty of text. I mean lexicon. If the phrases consist of simple words with simple meaning, then it is not that difficult to translate. Plus, the phrases in this or any other mobile application otome game are often repeated. All these "my heart beat/fluttered at the moment he said this" (one of the most repeating phrases in all the otome, to my mind), "he was clutching his fists", "he always cheers me up" and lots of it. And I'm not even speaking about common simple phrases like "I love you" and etc. Speaking about this game specifically - these phrases go from one route to another and are repeated so many times that it's became annoying to me. So the interpreters at the company aren't compelled to translate the repeating phases all over again. Sometimes it's a copy-past job as well.
If you're not satisfied with my bare facts (maybe they sound too bare to understand my point of view), let me give you an example - last summer I was tasked to translate 7 texts, and some of them consisted of more than 2 pages. I had a week, but as I'm a loafer, I decided to leave everything till the last day. I translated everything in time, in one day. But the texts were a real pain. It had such terminology, that I had to check lots of definitions with Wikia, and if it wasn't there, I had to google it. It was hard. But I did it. So don't tell me one cannot translate a bunch of silly and simple otome clichés. Had I known Japanese, I'd ask them for a job. I know what I'm talking about. I admit, maybe there are some difficulties connected with the translation from Japanese to English (not from Russian, for example). But still I think that with all the clichés it's not that hard.

Hagu_TL · **Reply #71 on:** September 13, 2013, 09:52:58 PM

Hmm, 7 files, two pages (essay units)... 14 pages is definitely doable in 24 hours, even with some research peppered in. I might even believe you had a whole route to yourself, if it was say, an epilogue. ...And I know what you mean about the repeating phrases. It seems like every fifth line, the MC is ??? doing something or other.

But, I see your seven 2-pagers and raise you thirty-four 2.5-pagers (avg. 1000 words at very lowest). That was my first assignment, and that's what the TL in my username is about. And maybe I'm just naive, but I am compelled to translate every line. Frankly, maintaining a Notepad page full of ready-to-use phrases never occurred to me until now. The way I see it, translating every variation of ? to "Huh? and every <name>... to "Name..." does client and consumer a disservice. I know I can't stand to read the same thing over and over again.

In any case, it sounds to me like your disillusioning look at the source material and relatively short assignment have altered the way you look at otome game translation in general. I tried to produce some figures to dissuade you without revealing how personally... insulted I was, but personal experiences really are the bedrock of generalities.

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Nobodyknows · **Reply #72 on:** September 14, 2013, 03:10:28 PM

Did I offend you? Sorry.

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Hmm, 7 files, two pages

I said "some of them consisted of more than 2 pages". Not just two pages. I simply don't remember the exact number of pages and we don't need the exact number. The fact is - it was a lot of work. And here we deal with much simpler terminology. Otome game is not a technical text for translation after all.

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14 pages is definitely doable in 24 hours

I would so much like to prove that the otome game at hand has perhaps the same number of pages, if not less (Times New Roman, 12 pt). I really would. But even I'm not crazy enough to write down every single phrase in every chapter and scenario, besides it is obvious that you're sticking to your own opinion, as well as I do to mine.

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but I am compelled to translate every line

Same here. I'm a frigging perfectionist.

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Frankly, maintaining a Notepad page full of ready-to-use phrases never occurred to me until now. The way I see it, translating every variation of ? to "Huh? and every <name>... to "Name..." does client and consumer a disservice. I know I can't stand to read the same thing over and over again.

It never occurred to me as well :D If I encounter the same phrase or a word, I will look for a synonym. I think every other interpreter would do the same. But as for our game - the translators sometimes don't even bother to do that. And considering that they admitted their "not that fluent" knowledge of English, I suppose one can't help it. When I said that it's a copy-past job and that there are lots of repeating phrases, I meant that you don't have to look up into the dictionary every time - you've already translated it some scenarios/chapters ago, so you are already familiar with its meaning to translate it on spot (which saves time for translation) or to look for a synonym.
But we're talking here not about the quality of the translation, but about the quantitative aspect.

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In any case, it sounds to me like your disillusioning look at the source material and relatively short assignment have altered the way you look at otome game translation in general.

It wasn't the last "big" assignment I got. So no, it wasn't the only example that "twisted my way of otome translation". But nevertheless, I think you're getting me wrong again. I'm not talking about all the otome in general. I'm not comparing otomes for PC with mobile otome applications. The games for PC are "deeper", they contain more details, more scenes, more endings, more descriptions and that's where terminology is getting a bit more "difficult" and serious. Of course, the translation of a full-fledged PC otome game would take much more time. But the games for mobiles are a lot shorter, terminology is easier, even story twists are simpler, though it depends on the game.

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or, any other time localization reduced translating speed to one sentence-an-hour

The one thing we have in common and can understand each other in is that we are perfectionists. High five on "one sentence-an-hour" :) God, I hate such difficult texts -_-

Hagu_TL · **Reply #73 on:** September 14, 2013, 08:26:30 PM

Well, for Heaven's sake, it looks like you were really trying to get at the difference between mobile and PC otome games, on which I agree with you entirely. It would be neat if someone would come along and try to do something of similar scale in mobile, but so much about the mobile app industry is cost analysis... (´???`)

Aiwethryne · **Reply #74 on:** September 14, 2013, 10:52:31 PM

I have learned so much after reading the above. =w=

Well, about Forbidden Love, I just completed the main story for Johannes 2, but this is one of the routes in which, even if we got every optimal answer, we need 100 more LOVE to reach all endings. CP spinning will be completely inefficient time-wise, so I would need to sacrifice 200 Coins for an avatar item. I really want a pair of pretty eyes, but it requires 500 Coins...

And... Sorry, Johannes. I don't like you that much anymore. *3* Even during Story 1, I kept flipping my arms in how the content was simply not that satisfying to me. Oh, well. It really is disappointing how I only tend to completely adore characters in routes that are not about them. Then I spent fifteen minutes endlessly scrolling through Tumblr's "forbidden love" tag. Seeing my own username pop up as a recommended blog location that constantly uses that hashtag makes me laugh.

I don't consider this a spoiler, but view at your own risk... LOL
A picture of Johannes at the end of Chapter 19.

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